Jerry Riley Investigative Reporter - ProAutoTalk.com

Dealerships Sued For Craigslist Postings?

   Have you ever heard the old saying “What you don't know can't hurt you" Well that's not entirely true is it? Did you know that if you are using software downloaded to your dealerships computer to post to Craigslist you are in direct violation of Craigslist TOU. To date there are approximately. 473 Auto dealers breaking the terms of use set by Craigslist  and they probably don't even know it.

   When you download a posting software package to your dealerships computer you are turning your dealership over to companies that use your IP address to post to craigslist. You are also giving them access to other parts of your computer as well i.e. your DMS.

   Take time and read section 19. VIOLATION OF TERMS AND LIQUIDATED DAMAGES. Craigslist TOU. The minimum fine is $100.00 and can go as high as $1000.00 depending on the offense.  I don’t know about you but even $100.00 per post gets my attention.

   Craigslist TOU is very clear in section 6.  it does not want posting agents or chronological software spamming its environment. Yes you are using a posting agent if you hired a company to secure your inventory so that they can give you access to their software that you download to your dealerships computer so that their software can use your IP address to post and spam Craigslist. Why is this “IP” thing so darn important? Because Craigslist can automatically detect if someone is posting your inventory “out of region” In other words you can only post to Craigslist from your area. This is why the spammers must have you install their “software” What the software does is grants access to your computer so the chronological software can spam Craigslist with your inventory.

   What is Chronological Software? It’s software that runs on a timer and also can read a captcha(w) This little device makes the process spam.

   several companies develop, offer, market and distribute illegal software and services designed to greatly facilitate and amplify unauthorized and illegal uses of Craigslist’s classified services — at the expense of Craigslist and legitimate Craigslist users.

   ProAutoTalk.com called a couple companies that offer Craigslist Posting Services and both admitted to using such device but could not state if it was illegal or not. If I were them I wouldn't admit that either.  Do not let anyone tell you they are not doing the above scenario. It’s nearly impossible to charge as little as some of these companies charge and not use a Blackhat Software. What makes no sense to us is that dealers are paying a Posting Agent/Service to Spam Craigslist using their IP address giving the dealership all the liability. So in reality dealers are paying a third party company to spam a FREE classified listing platform so that they could open themselves up to being sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars.. What's wrong with this picture?

   Another problem you are going to run into is that the majority of the companies offering this solution are legit companies like your data providers. Over 30 data providers and several auto dealer marketing companies use a company out of Sunnyvale CA. The Sunnyvale company white labels their spamming software and resells it to what they refer to as "Partners"  A perfect example of this is a major auto dealer marketing firm out of San Ramon, CA. A source that use to work with the Sunnyvale Software Spamming Company claims to have proof that The San Ramon Company is using this banned software to spam Craigslist and provided us with a list of over 200 dealers using such a solution.   So why would a major auto dealer marketing company put your dealership at risk? Why are they using a company like the one in Sunnyvale? Money. Think about it, 200 dealers times $700.00; well you do the math.

  So why doesn't Craig just shut them down? Well, Craigslist has its own battles going on but we were assured by Craig himself that this is HIGH on his list to do in 2011. Sources close to Craig’s camp say that they have plans to change the way you can post, especially dealerships. By the way, in case you were wondering; Yes, Craig knows who is spamming his environment. They also know what auto dealer is using companies that use and abuse Chronological Software.

  Here is the bigger picture in case you missed it.. Let’s say you are one of the 473 dealers using this outlaw software (This number may be higher this is all we can trace) Craigslist finds out you are spamming their platform using this type of software. Craig can sue you right? Right.. easily since he has a track record of every car you posted with the software from your machine using your IP address.

    The average dealership post 700 ads per month using Black Cat Chronological Software so at the minimum 700 X $100 equals $70,000.00 the max fine, if Craig wins, is $1000.00 per post equaling $700,000.00 in fines not including court cost, attorney fees, your time etc.   But wait there’s more. He could, if he wanted too,  turn you over to the federal government and report you to the spam department http://www.ftc.gov/spam and your dealerships IP will be found on a Spam list.

   When your dealership is on a spam list your IP is blacklisted. How bad is that? Well every time you send an email to someone it will go to spam. That's how bad it is.   You can check to see if your IP address is being blocked or reported here Check my IP

Below is Craigslist No Spam Policy from Craigslist TOU.

9. NO SPAM POLICY

You understand and agree that sending unsolicited email advertisements to craigslist email addresses or through craigslist computer systems, which is expressly prohibited by these Terms, will use or cause to be used servers located in California.  Any unauthorized use of craigslist computer systems is a violation of these Terms and certain federal and state laws, including without limitation the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. § 1030 et seq.), Section 502 of the California Penal Code and Section 17538.45 of the California Business and Professions Code.  Such violations may subject the sender and his or her agents to civil and criminal penalties. More

   Spamming, in case you didn’t know, is against the law and not just any law, it’s prohibited by Federal Law. http://www.ftc.gov/spam

   So why don't you contact Craigslist and just "Make A Deal" Maybe you can get Craig to give you permission to use the software by offering him money.

   First of all Craigslist and its founder Craig Newmark are everything but motivated by money. So good luck with that.

Photo Credit                       Jim Buckmaster CEO and Founder Craig

   Craigslist is now in more than 700 cities worldwide. More than 50 million people visit the site per month and they view more than 20 billion pages per month, Newmark said. Users have posted more than 1.5 billion ads on the site since its founding in 1995. Posting on the site is free in most cases; the site makes most of its money from job postings Source Inman News 07/13/2010

So what should you do? First of all remove any and all software that you have downloaded from a third party to post to Craigslist.  ( This isn't easy they make it hard to remove, get your IT people to help you ) Secondly, Craig wants you to post manually to Craigslist, from your computer, so that its fair to others posting to Craigslist. Third, There's another old saying: "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is" 

   Bottom line: You can do whatever you want to do as long as you are willing to pay the consequences or Craigsequences.

Jerry Riley

news@proautotalk.com

Have something to report about the automotive industry? Send us a story to investigate. 

07/19/2010 By: Admin

Reply: When they promised all this did they remember to say "Cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye" lol Did you get this in writing? most of the companies doing this type of work using Chronological Software will not state in writing that they will or will not. The agreements we found are very vague .. usually states something like: "We will post to classified platforms including craigslist etc" the end pay us. Send your agreement to me let me look at it. news@proautotalk.com Attn: Jerry.

07/18/2010 By: Admin

Reply: Nope not good at all - you are still in violation of Craigslist TOU. Think about what you just said. You are still cheating. You should contact a guy named Tom Stokes that owns a online marketing company named Inventory Blaster. Ask him for a Compliant Craigslist Posting Solution. There are only two companies that we have found that honors the Craigslist TOU

07/17/2010 By: Admin

Reply: There are a couple companies that offer a legit posting solutions not just for Craigslist but for all platforms - Check out http://www.inventoryblaster.com  again Craigslist wants you to post from your computer and must be an employee of the dealership.   

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